In this interview with mental health advocate & speaker Sandy Rocourt, we talk about how to cope with loneliness and Sandy shares her own journey of moving from grief to recovery. Sandy lost her mother, sister, and father within a short time period, but since then she has overcome the pain and suffering of that loss and she has learned how to live a purpose-driven life without her family.

In this video, we talk about the work she does to help other people deal with emotions like pain and loneliness. She shares tips for overcoming "lockdown loneliness" and social isolation, and she shares how discovering the work of personal development experts and motivational speakers helped her cope with loneliness.

MALLORY WHITFIELD:

Hi, Sandy, thank you for joining us! You have a lot of experience learning how to deal with loneliness, and I know that your own experience predates this time of the COVID pandemic. Many people have been suddenly dealing with a lot of additional loneliness in the last few months, but you were kind of forced to learn how to deal with loneliness in your own way before that -- can you share your own experience in learning how to deal with loneliness and some of what you've gone through?

SANDY ROUCOURT:

I certainly may! I'm excited to be here with you, it's so good to see you. I missed you, my love. Thank you for inviting me to your show. It's just so beautiful and relaxing.

Loneliness... Yes, I have some interesting stories to talk about. And I just want to put it out there, for those who are having some issues with grief: this is going to be a little bit mindful, but I just want to let everyone know that I am safe and I am good. I've been through some traumatic losses, with people passing on due to health concerns and people who have walked away during my winter storms.

In 2013, my mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. When she got diagnosed on November 5, she only lived for one month and then she passed on, which was really hurtful. This was my mom, this was my best mom - I know you can see a picture behind me. She has been my rock, and as we got older, we knew what we were about and and she was great. That was my best buddy. You know, that was my mom and I missed her.

So where are we? 2020? Yeah, so it's been about about six years without her. Then after my mom passed on, I had an older sister. 11 months after my mom's death, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had that for awhile, but she was in remission. But then it came back and there was no way to save my sister. So she passed on in November 2014. So that left me my dad. Me and my dad were going to be survivors of this, and continue on after losing two people, two women in our life. However, three months later, my dad had a misfortunate stroke, and he died of a heart attack three months later after my sister's death. That's 2015, so in a whole, let's say 14 months, I went through heavy losses. I tried to look up on the internet, "Has anyone lost their family members in a short span of two and a half years?" You know? And of course you can't find it, so I had to figure out on my own how was I going to deal with this heavy loss, because that was my family unit. I mean, we had other family members, but we were more into togetherness with each other, so to be the last surviving family member in 2015, my whole world fell apart.

How did you get through that time? Because that's a lot to lose... basically, your entire family in a really short amount of time. How did you get through that time?

The beginning was hard, you know. I'd rather be honest here in this call and say that in the beginning it's hard because you have all thoughts of suicide. You have all sorts of drugs, you always have that devil coming at you with drugs, alcohol, thoughts of suicide, or overeating. Everything else was just bothering me for the last few years, and 2015-16 was the hardest for me.

My father's attorney reached out to me wanting to know what's going on. I kept going away to visit people who I thought were my family members that cared about me, but I kept flying out down south thinking that they cared and wanted to make sure I was okay. When in reality, they were just looking for something else. You know, I don't think they cared about me, they cared about what was left or something else, who knows. But in the end, after my attorney did find out what was going on and everything, I was blessed to have a home that was all paid for. I didn't have to pay rent or anything. I had a home, the mortgage paid off. The lawyer was telling me everything was fine. I just had to figure out what to do.

The lawyer locked up the funds that were left for me. I mean, I had my own money and I didn't care. I was like, okay, I'll drink my misery away, or do something... I asked them, "Okay, so when should I just plan out my funeral because there's no one that's going to be there for me?" I figured in 2016, since everyone else had died in 2013, 2014, 2015... I put the message out there and just said, "Okay, I'm gonna just put out that I'm gonna burn... just cremate me. That's it." And he looked at me like, "You're kidding me. What is wrong with you?" And then he's like, "I don't think you're going. I think that's it. I think you're stuck here." But he told me, "You have a lot of work to do. And I suggest that you go home and figure out what is going to be beneficial to you because I'm not unlocking anything for you at this moment because your dad and your parents and your sister worked too hard for you to go ahead and waste away." So I had a lot of work to do.

What saved me was my sister, who I did not get along with. She had books on personal development, and I didn't know what personal development was. My sister had all these books and I guess those books were helping to save her through her cancer treatments. Even though she had a mom and dad and me for support, but she never got along with me. She never had a connection with me. But then I found all her diaries or journals. You would think that's private, but I couldn't I couldn't help myself. I had to open it. And now what? Why was there so much animosity towards me? But first, let me get into what happened...

I had to be in solitude. In the words of Brene Brown, I had to brave the wilderness. I had to be in solitude for a moment to really figure out, "What am I going to do without the family members that I had for the last 30 years of my life?" Most of the time when I did personal development, I just worked on being in solitude. I had to be in solitude, in the wilderness, to figure out my life.

Dealing with loneliness and grief and the death of loved ones... It's something that is really hard and it's not a fast process for anybody to deal with. I think most of us wish it was a fast process, and that we could just, you know, wave a magic wand and feel better. But yeah, I think we have to sit with that solitude and learn how to accept it. Having gone through that, now you work with other people who are dealing with loneliness and dealing with other mental health issues. Can you talk about that and the work that you do now?

I had to take care of me first, in order for me to help. At the beginning, I wouldn't have been able to help anybody because I was craving attention. I was looking to belong and looking to be part of the in crowd. But by doing the personal development, it really gave me that help, to acknowledge and know what really matters to me the most so that I can support others.

Now I am part of NAMI, which is the National Alliance on Mental Illness. I am an ambassador and an advocate for all others that are going through their emotions like pain and loneliness. Plus, now after this pandemic, it gave me a lesson for me to go give it back and share what I was able to learn because I know what it feels like to be alone. I had the tools, tips and the education because of NAMI. When you go to grief counseling, it's only for 12 weeks, so I decided to go to NAMI just to talk about what I was feeling, because not only was there grief but there's social anxiety, there's loneliness... For me, it had everything that I needed. I learned about spiritual writing, and journaling. I got so into journaling, that I journal every day now, that's my love. I even got into Morning Pages.

Now, in order for me to help, I had to go through the pain and suffering so that I can be empathetic for those who are going through their pain and suffering. It's been a delight. I've been working with so many different people that want to do the inner work and make the necessary changes in their life to live a purposeful life.

You mentioned journaling. On your blog, you've recently been doing a series of tips and resources for people who are dealing with loneliness, especially during this COVID-19 pandemic. I saw that journaling was one of those tips, and you also mentioned something called QuarantineChat, which I had never heard of. Can you share more about specific resources that people could use to deal with loneliness?

Oh my god, thanks for reading that. Yeah, I think a lot of people need some help on how to overcome this lockdown loneliness or social isolation. I'm doing a five-week blog series on overcoming lockdown loneliness, and I put it out there for people to stop blaming others. We always put blame on others. We should take responsibility for our own actions and try and work on ourselves.

I wanted to write that five-week series to help people to find a way. Especially when I saw QuarantineChat, I was like, "Oh, what's this about?" Nowadays, when you go outside, it's hard to have that communication with someone outside because you have the mask on and you don't know if they're smiling or not. But when you go on QuarantineChat, they give you a phone number and you can have that conversation with [a random person] if you want. If you don't, that's fine. You go to the next one. It's almost like a dating app. But still it's someone that you can have a social connection with. It was mentioned in Business Insider and I got involved with it. It's helpful because before this quarantine happened, I would just make friends with strangers even in the elevator here in New York City. People were shocked because you know how New Yorkers are like, "You talking to me?" Like, "Yes, yes, I'm talking to you." So I figured this QuarantineChat was helpful for others to use.

This idea of talking and making friends with strangers, whether through an app like QuarantineChat or chatting up people in the elevator or at the Starbucks or wherever, do you think that loneliness affects introverts and extroverts differently? I feel like we've talked a lot in the last few years about introverts and extroverts and ambiverts. But do you think it's easier for introverts to deal with loneliness because they're used to being alone, or is that a bias that we have?

No, I've noticed that some introverts are liking this. They're like, "You see, guys, that's what I told you." I tell them that I was an extrovert, but I said, "No, I do need my alone time. Sorry." At the end of the day, I do have some introvert minutes, but I go out there just to have that conversation and feel like I've made human connections. We're all social creatures. Don't tell me that you like to be in solitude. That's fine. I'm not mad at that. But I think people are people are like, laughing at us. They're laughing at the extrovert people. See, with the introverts, they want connections, but they just they just want it to be meaningful. They don't want it to be fake, especially with the social media world, where people are so looking for acceptance. They just want that human connection with someone that's open, honest, and emotionally vulnerable.

Yeah. Another thing I know that you've talked about for coping with loneliness is physical activity. For me, that is one of the ways that I started dealing with loneliness pre-COVID. I went through a big breakup and life transition in 2018 - I began living on my own after being with a partner for many years, and that experience prepared me for how to deal with loneliness during this moment in time. One of the things that helped me was physical exercise, walking and getting out in the park. Can you talk about the connection between the physical body and the mental aspect of loneliness?

Before COVID, I was a five o'clock am girl, going to the gym downstairs in my building. Then when COVID happened, I was like where am I gonna go? Being active and doing physical activities does help overcome feeling alone. For me, exercise inspires me to have a positive mental attitude throughout the day, and set my intentions for the day. If you do the workout, you're gonna feel so much better throughout the day and your whole physical mind and body is going to set your attention to have an uplifting good mood.

You've shared so many good resources here and I know that you share great resources on your blog and social media. You've also been doing webinars and other things lately... Can you share more about your resources for dealing with loneliness and what you have available?

I decided to do this program to help others overcome their emotional distress during this challenging times. What I do is I give a webinar just to bring value to them. I've been sending this out to people on my list and my Facebook page, and people are liking it. I do this webinar twice a month, and if people like it and they want to turn into clients, I have a 12 week program. I help you learn how to acknowledge your emotions for the rest of your life instead of holding on to the past. This is especially for people who are dealing with grief. Grief could be about divorce, loss of friendship, or a break up a boyfriend or girlfriend. This helps them expand their mind to being emotionally vulnerable. I'm a Brene Brown fan. She talks about so much stuff that really needs to be out there more, about belonging, communities, and trust. I'm a fan of her work, because it helped me to release all that emotional distress.

Yeah, and I think it's so great that you're providing these resources to help people change their lives. You mentioned Brene Brown, who is also a favorite of mine. What is one other resource that really changed your life for the better?

I've been reading so many personal development books ever since I found [my sister's books]... I read Stephen Covey, Tony Robbins and Jack Canfield. All these books and people are saying, "Yeah, white men?" No, but my sister had these books, but I found Les Brown.

Can you share more about Les Brown and what what he talks about? What was his impact for you?

Well, Les Brown is another personal development teacher, a Black man that does get recognition, but it seems like all the stuff that I see is mostly white men. And it's like, "Wait a minute, there's some Black people in here. Let's see what they're about." Les Brown talks about the personal development side of it, and even Tony Robbins talks about him. Les Brown is all about living a life with purpose. When I found out about Les, I said, "You know, I'm here reading all these men," and I'll never forget, one lady asked me, "Oh, yeah, all white men?" Okay, you're right. But you learn to turn it around and make it your own. You know, just like I say, Brene Brown, I should say Maya Angelou. Don't get me wrong. Maya Angelou is great too. But at the time, these were all the messages that I was getting, which were helping me to understand about true belonging. I mean, now we're in a racial trauma too. I have a feeling that we're all going to be more open to have these difficult conversations.

Yeah, well, and to your point about so many of these popular motivational speakers, and personal growth people... for so long that has been dominated by a lot of white men, but I feel like now more people are trying to seek out diverse voices, right? Like, not just wanting somebody that looks like us but wanting people of all different backgrounds because somebody who looks different than us might actually have a more similar way of coping with the world and dealing with our emotions. We all handle our emotions differently, and we all have different ways that we think and learn. I think that everybody can be a teacher, and I think it's important to have that diverse set of influences, right?

I agree. I feel like it has to be diversified. I mean, with me, I just learned from them because I feel like they taught me well. Because all we know for [well-known Black women motivational speakers] is Lisa Nichols or Iyanla Vanzant in the personal development space, but I'm more towards Lisa Nichols. I follow her mostly because she talks about what I'm into, like your mind and your emotions and togetherness and everything. But we need more of us to go on that stage and that's what I'm working on. I'm putting myself out there more. I'm actually doing something in the UK, I've been accepted to do a virtual summit for a campaign on ending loneliness.

That's so exciting, congrats! So Sandy, what advice would you give to your 20 year old self? If you could go back in time, knowing everything that you've experienced in your life, what would you tell your younger self?

I would say what I've learned from these influencers, and it's all about trading your expectations for appreciation. I wish I had that instilled in me, so that I didn't have to worry about belonging or being popular.

This is what I needed when I was 20. I want to tell my younger self, "You know what, trade your expectations for appreciation. Love yourself. Gratitude. Be more more aware of yourself."

I wish someone would have told me that. I wish I had Daniel Goleman next to me with the emotional intelligence. That really showed me about self awareness. People that are meeting me now, they're like, "Sandy, you're just like, laid back and chill. You don't get upset if someone said this to you." And I'm like, "Oh, my life is too short." If some of them know my story, they would see why I'm not even struggling, even dealing with narcissistic people. I just, I have nothing to say to them, they're always gonna be the same. But my advice for them is to really take a good look at themselves and be in love with yourself. It's not being selfish. It's about knowing what you truly are so that you can show the better version of yourself.

Yeah, I think that self love and self appreciation is so important. I mean, we are the only person that we're going to be stuck with our entire lives right? We have people that may come and go for whatever reason, but we're stuck with ourselves no matter what, so you might as well learn to love yourself.

Yeah, I just learned to just accept who I am without my family members anymore. I mean, even with the family members I thought I could connect with, I decided that I'm just going to make new friends who are going to be my family because now I get to choose who gets to be in my circle.

Sandy, if people want to connect with you online, where can they find you?

At SandyRocourt.com I have a speaking page and I have a blog. And I am on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn, where you can get all the valuable info about social isolation and loneliness. This is something that is near and dear to me, to help you guys to really have the real human connections that are meaningful, open, honest and emotionally vulnerable. Because we don't want to be left behind in that wilderness, but some days you may have to be in solitude just to find yourself though.

Thank you so much, Sandy!