Creating a Sense of Belonging in STEM (Talking Diversity in STEM with Stephanie Castillo)

In this interview with Stephanie Castillo, we talk about the importance of diversity and inclusion in STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) fields and how to create a sense of belonging in STEM. We discuss why representation in STEM matters and talk about the stereotypes and narratives around who belongs in science, technology, engineering and math fields.

Stephanie also explains what science communication is and how she is blending creativity with science to make STEM more accessible as a science communicator and digital storyteller. Stephanie is a Ph.D. Candidate in Science Communication at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, TN as well as the founder of Phuture Doctors.

Phuture Doctors started as a creative outlet for Stephanie to share her passion for outreach and teaching, eventually leading to her initiative to bring true diversity to the STEM workforce using representation in media as a conduit. Stephanie is part of an interdisciplinary Ph.D. program supported by research professors in Science Communication, STEM Education, Chemistry, Digital Humanities, plus Cinema & Media Arts.

MALLORY WHITFIELD:

Hi, Stephanie, thanks for joining me today.

STEPHANIE CASTILLO:

Thank you for having me.

So, tell us about Ph.uture D.octors and what it is and what inspired this project.

Yeah, so Ph.uture D.octors - hopefully it will be a media company that will change the way scientists are shown on screen. I was kind of inspired by a lot of the science YouTube that I watch, but most of the people that host those types of channels are usually one type of demographic. They are just older males, typically like white cis in their late 30s, or something, but they also portray a more college educated type of audience as well.

I wanted to bring in the science, but also make sure that there's representation in each of these videos. So, I am interviewing my colleagues at the university who are all from different racial, cultural, whatever types of other identifiers, backgrounds, and just giving them a platform to talk about their awesome science, but also highlighting that diversity within science, too. So that's what I got going on.

Yeah. Okay, so you're trying to showcase the wide representation of who can and does participate in science and I think you touched on something. There does tend to be, you know… science for a very long time or STEM fields for a long time have been sort of predominantly white male, cis, able bodied, etc. and I know that there's been this push to encourage people from underrepresented backgrounds, have more women in STEM.

I've seen some talk around having a sense of belonging within STEM tends to increase how long people stay in those fields. Because there can be a drop off, people get interested, but then if they don't feel like they belong, working in that, or studying those STEM fields, they might drop off and look for something else. Can you speak to that and what you've seen and experienced personally, when it comes to belonging and STEM?

Yeah, so before going into my personal experience, I think most of this literature and the studies have been out there... There are very different aspects on what keeps someone or what affects someone's sense of belonging within STEM. It can either be an underrepresented minority in a very predominantly white institute. It could be that they're not getting the respect from their peers or their professors and so being ousted makes someone not want to continue into the field, but as well as representation. So, as a Hispanic person, if I'm not seeing other Hispanic professors, then I'm kind of like, well, is this a place for me? Does anyone understand what my cultural background affects?

I'm also the first person in my family to go to college, also having that first generation type of background is just like, okay, well, if I have these peers that have other parents that already taught them the way then how do I know how to navigate this space? Not having another professor or anyone in this department understand my experience also makes me feel then this place is not really meant for me. I liked science in high school, and then there are only the main categories of oh, there's physics, there's history, or there's math and science and I was just okay, well, science is the most decent one, so I guess I'll continue in that one.

But it wasn't until when I went to community college, I actually had a professor who was a Hispanic woman, and I was struggling. I pretty much failed most of my exams until I got to the point where I went to her office hours and I was like, hey, I really need your help. So, it was actually her taking the time to work these problems out for me and me having a deeper understanding of chemistry. But also seeing her and her being able to do this, I thought, “Okay, maybe I do have what it takes to be a scientist.” Because I grew up watching Bill Nye the Science Guy, so you just kind of have this weird stereotype of like, a genius kind of white guy with crazy hair is who can be a scientist.

I went along the traditional path of I graduated from university or I transferred from community college to university. I also had a lot of research professors that were also Hispanic people from my home country, which is Venezuela. So, I was surrounded by diversity. It was awesome to see that and also be acknowledged and valued for that. But it wasn't until I got into my PhD chemistry program is where there was a culture shock. I went from Orlando, Florida, my hometown, and my university, super diverse to then coming to Nashville, which is still has a weird sense of segregation happening, to be honest.

So, I was in that university, and then it was only a month, or a year in when I was told that the way I spoke wasn’t very master’s material and PhD material, whatever that meant. So, that kind of ugh and then reflecting on, “Who is in my department?” There was no other minority faculty there to really understand the kind of mentorship that I needed. That's where I dove into looking at the bigger picture of okay, well, this is a widespread problem that there's lack of diversity in these higher positions, especially in higher education. So, that's why I decided to start Ph.uture D.octors and dive into that, but diving into that, and building that community has also reinforced the importance of having diversity in these spaces and also valued. I still belong, I still have what it takes to be a Ph.D. and, yes, that's my journey for the most part.

Yeah. Well, and so I think you've spoken to the importance of having other people who look like you or represent your similar background in leadership positions, having those teachers or having those mentors. But beyond that, what are some tangible ways that do you think we could create more sense of belonging both in school (even at younger ages, starting in elementary, middle school, high school, through college), as well as in the workforce? Whether we want to be allies to other people and create a stronger sense of belonging in STEM and more diversity, or just to foster that in any way. What are some things that do you think we can do to create more of that?

Oh, man! I think, one thing that I've been discussing with some friends is that sometimes the problem with using the word diversity is that it ends up becoming just a buzz word, just to get more people of color into these spaces, but we're not actually bringing them into an environment where they're valued for their skills. So, it's really hard. The people that do want to bring on diverse perspectives from whatever type of background they really have to be in the mindset that they're valuing the person for their skills, and not just trying to check a box off that they're a black or indigenous or queer person going into this space.

So, it really takes a lot of reflecting from whatever company it is to actually have that initiative or what's the word I'm looking for? The intent, I guess, I don't know what the word is, but I guess like having that intent in mind. But, if they're already with this movement, a lot of companies are trying to shift that environment and so another way is that it's just cultivating a community. I think community is a big thing in the sense of instead of offering forced happy hours at work or forcing diverse people to be on these diverse boards and being tokenized, to speak on the behalf of whatever representation, that what they're trying to do is really fostering a way that everyone that's at the table has the chance to speak and hear each other out and respect each other and just have a real sense of family community within that work environment.

So, I think that can speak for the STEM workforce itself but in terms of a younger education or like in elementary school, there is this movement called Skype A Scientist that happens and it's actually bringing, just like we're doing, telecommunication. You get to bring scientists into the classroom and that's a way that teachers actually have a broad scope of the type of scientists that they're showing to their students at a younger age. I think for a younger demographic, representation is the most valuable tool we can use to cultivate that sense of belonging or spark that sense of inspiration and allow students to see themselves represented in a field that they probably never even knew about or can dream about.

So, as we're talking about this, I had a couple of different things that I've sort of read or encountered recently that come to mind. I was reading this article about math and how a lot of times young girls at a certain age, they're pretty equivalent in terms of skills but then there are these cultural things, that as they get older, they either get told by teachers or parents oh, you're not naturally as good at math because you're a girl, even though there's no science to really back that up. It's all just cultural stuff. And I was reading about this woman, Vanessa Vakharia aka The Math Guru who is based in Toronto. She does work around trying to make math cool, basically, trying to change the cultural ideas around math.

Does she have that club? It's like a cafe, a math cafe.

Yes! And so it feels very fun and girly and to make it feel really comfortable in a different way, to try to change the cultural dynamic around it.

Yeah.

Then I was thinking of a friend of mine who was talking about his girlfriend's daughter, who's I think, around 12 or 13 and who wants to be a scientist, very mathy but very recently realized that she wants to read more novels, but had told herself this narrative that people who like science or people who are into STEM type of things don't like creative things. So, my friend was asking for recommendations of female scientists who also love to read novels. We have all these narratives so, I don't know…

Yeah, I think it's weird. Where do these stereotypes come from? Again, it's just like growing up watching Bill Nye the Science Guy. I thought that was cool. I don't know, it's hard, because we have two different types of people that like science purely because they love science, but then there are also people that are like, you guys have potential but just because you don't believe that you fit into this box of what you think a scientist is, and you kind of push yourself back but I think we have to kind of think, again, that scientists are just people.

Me, as a scientist, I wasn't really good in school. I was a mediocre student. I got B's and C's, and I really had to work hard to get the things that I want but at the same time, I actually wanted to be a photographer before going into STEM. But again, we have the stereotypes of just an artist is like a starving artist. So, my parents pushed me more to go into science but I found a way now through science to bring in my creativeness. And having those different types of hobbies or interests can also help cultivate you to be a different and unique scientist that has value to solving the problems that we need to solve.

Now, I incorporated my love for photography. So, through filming, I'm now doing science communication which is using video as a medium to talk about science, which is a way to create that for yourself. So, it's like, if this person, I don't know… I think we're recognizing that maybe more on social media where I have friends who love makeup. They're really good makeup artists and now they're using their face as a canvas to communicate science. There's a way to bring both and not feel ashamed for it but also value that you have the ability to be so creative, analytical through your science and how you combine those two to merge both of your passions.

But that's interesting you mentioned that because I remember reading a paper too. It was for a physics class. They're making a video, but they made their background purposely very science-heavy and when they showed it to their classroom, most of the males in the classroom actually were drawn more to the video where the females in the classroom were kind of like ugh, they lost interest. But when they made the background of their video very neutral (it wasn't very nerdy, it was some cool art or whatever), then more of the females were actually into it.

So, it's crazy how nuances like that change your perceptions and your stereotypes of who can do science, or it re-emphasizes the stereotype that you have in mind. As we continue on, we're recognizing the value of having everyone's unique identity acknowledged and represented and not praised. What's the word but, I don't know… we're uplifting it. I think we're more bringing our unique backgrounds to the forefront to try to demystify the stereotypes that we've continued to harness.

Yeah. I think identity is something that seems like a big part of this as we were talking about belonging in STEM, because, yeah, to your point about not wanting to have companies just check off the box of having x, y, z type of person added to their team, and it really needs to be much deeper than that. Yeah. But it's also in terms of these identities, “Oh, I am a scientist, therefore, I can't like creative things,” or “I am an artist, therefore, I can't like science.” I think we often have this tendency to want to put people in these boxes, where they're mutually exclusive or our identity is distilled down into these one or two narrow things, but that's not how people are.

Exactly. I don't know. But it's weird. But it's like why do we. That can be like a whole other conversation. It's like, why do we go down to that? Why do we feel like we have to? Now we're changing the definition of gender expression and it took a long time for people to respect that gender is on a spectrum. It's like why can't we do that with the different types of identities that we have. It's important because I remember reading or seeing a video that a mentor of mine created where there are these doctors trying to find a cure or they were trying to find some type of...

Okay, there was a type of demographic that kept getting some type of infection and they were trying to understand why were more Hispanics getting this type of infection compared to everyone else. And they were so confused and contemplating and trying to understand and it wasn't until this Puerto Rican professor was like, oh, this is because culturally, they're going to be doing more of this. So, it was because of him from that background, he was able to identify that whereas people outside of that are never going to understand or even acknowledge or know the cultural nuances that can help solve these problems.

So, I think that's where it's important to recognize our differences between each of these people, and how each of our differences can bring a unique perspective to the table. So yeah, it's a good question. I wonder why even still, as we're trying to shift the narrative, why is it so hard for all of us to, I don't know, that's also generalizing, but hard for us to break these stereotypes of what we think someone should be.

Yeah, yeah. And trying to fit it into those narrow boxes. I've always been a very creative person, but I tend to be a little ADD. I have a lot of different creative interests. I like visual art. I like video, I like being on stage, and dancing, all these things and I had this realization, a few years ago, when I realized a lot of the people that I admired - both artists that I knew personally and famous influences in my life - I was like, they are these kinds of people that are constantly evolving and pulling from all these different inspirations.

I'm not drawn to the type of artists who have only done this one narrow type of thing their entire life. I like people who really are immersed in all sorts of different things and curious about the world. And I'm curious, do you have specific inspirations as far as STEM, scientists, or people that you've really looked up to that have been inspirations for you? People that we might be able to check out, whether it's a famous scientist or an author or…?

Yeah. Oh man, oh, man. I don't know. That's a good question. Because I think I'm inspired by my peers, because okay, so with Ph.uture D.octors, we're now in a time where science communication is on the rise compared to just hard-hitting STEM fields. It's important to be able to communicate the research that's being done to whatever type of audience. And like I was saying before, I was really interested in photography. So, I want to bring that kind of creative eye into my science communication. So, oh man, this is a good question. I never really thought about it.

I have to give kudos to Bill Nye the Science Guy because I was raised on that but also the style of editing that the PBS Channel did is kind of similar to the editing or the humor that you see now on Tik Tok and popular media which is really weird, kind of like the 90s flair coming back again.

Let me look real quick…

Science Sam is a really, really good science communicator but she is a neuroscientist. She got her Ph.D. in neuroscience, but now she is pretty much the face translating science from different types of fields. But she's also very heavily involved in making sure that our science communication is inclusive. So, Science Sam is a person that I look up to.

In terms of video, I don't know. Do you know the studio… Have you seen Euphoria?

No, I don't think so.

Oh, man. It's a teen drama meant for adults to watch it because it was very R-rated but the people that produce the show, the media company that produces the show is called A24, and I really like the A24 Studio because they created... Have you seen movies like Midsommar? I don't know if you're into scary movies or anything.

Oh, I've heard of that one. I am not so much a horror movie person, but I've heard of that one.

But aesthetically, visually, it's such a beautiful film the way that things are shot, and I don't know if it's just the style or the studio, but the studio has a weird uniqueness that you know it's from A24. So, I want to bring in that inspiration of that type of cinematography into the work of being able to communicate science, like Science Sam but also have that humor, that uniqueness from Bill Nye the Science Guy and the nostalgia. So, that's how I'm pulling in the different facets of trying to create something unique for work that I make in the future.

Well, and I think the work that you're doing with this science communication… because this is kind of an emerging field. Isn't this what your Ph.D. is on?

Yeah.

Yeah. Can you talk more about science communication, because I think it's really cool? I have a background in marketing, and I've become kind of a tech translator for technical things like search engine optimization, to try to explain it in simpler language so that small business owners can understand it.

Because similarly to a lot of science concepts, there are these things that seem so technical if you're not familiar with it at all. It takes people who understand the science or the technical aspects well enough so that then they can translate it into a more clear language so that even a little kid could get it. And I think it's really important. Can you talk more about this science communication work?

Yeah, I feel like it's been around for a while because science communication is broad in the sense of, when you think of the word “communication”, it's a dialogue that's happening between two entities and so, the science component comes in. At first we would think it's about a technical person or a scientist talking to a non-expert, but it can either be between two experts or two non-experts, it's just about the connection and the dialogue that's happening between.

Science communication can be in a written format, kind of how you were saying, where if I were to have this instruction manual, how do I translate this really dense instruction manual in a way that's more concise and more understandable to a person that's going to pick up from IKEA?

We can even think about COVID right now. The CDC, they are science communicators so there are people that are working to translate the research that's going on, that's ever-evolving and trying to keep up with how we're understanding the Coronavirus, this new strain of Coronavirus and translating it so then the public can understand. There are going to be people who are good at it and not good at it.

But again, it's just how do we take the research that's going on at NASA or these medical institutions or even at the university level… How are we taking these complex science concepts that these experts know and how do we bring it down and use everyday terminology to explain and to be transparent about the work that's being done? Why is it important? How it's impacting our lives and why we should care? These are things that are going to help bridge the gap of the public understanding the importance of science and how it affects their lives.

And also, not to be, political or whatever, but science communication helps us know where or how our taxes or our money is being funneled into the research to better benefit us in the long run. So, there can be written science communication, which is reading a magazine or learning about science through a magazine. There's outreach as a form of communication. So, it's scientists or experts going into the classroom to show you science experiments. There's video science communication, which is what I'm aspiring to do, and what we see on science YouTube with Smarter Every Day, Veritasium, Physics Girl.

Those are science communicators through a media platform. So, it's all about how do we understand these complex concepts that experts are continuously evolving their terminology, but it's so technical. How do we bring it down so the normal, everyday person can understand, or a child can understand? I think that's a skill in and of itself and that's why it's important to have professional science communicators in the field to be that bridge between the expert and the public and to help build that trust between each other.

Yeah, yeah. It's so important and this reminds me… I don't know if you have any thoughts about STEAM versus STEM because I feel that STEAM (where it adds arts in the middle of the STEM acronym) has gotten more traction. What are your thoughts on using one acronym versus another?

Yeah. Again, it's important to have that. Everyone just changes it depending on what the goal is. So, if we're trying to inspire more kids or younger people to be interested…bringing back to how your friend was looking for someone who's a scientist, but also likes novels. That's where it's important to bring in the STEAM aspect of it because even science communication can be visual. Visual art and a painting about a cell, an animal cell. That's important to bring in. I think that distinguishes what the goal is.

If I'm just talking about research, then I'm going to stick with just STEM but if we're talking about cultivating an environment to bring everyone together, and everything is all-encompassing, in terms of this goal that we're trying to establish, bringing in the arts is important. So, I think it's just a new word. What is the purpose of using, whether including art or not? With science communication, the science indication itself would be more STEAM versus just STEM because we're bringing that artistic, creative element in order to find a new way to communicate whoever we are to our audience.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. So, starting to wrap up, what is one resource that has been totally life-changing for you? It could be a movie or a person or a book. It doesn't even have to be related to STEM but what's one thing that really changed your life that you would recommend somebody check out?

Oh, man. Well, there's this channel called Seeker. I have friends who are professional science communicators that speak for this YouTube channel. This YouTube channel is all about science. Mostly about medical and space science, but that's an awesome channel that really shows the importance of science communication and how it can be made in a way that's entertaining and valuable for anybody that comes across a video to watch and see and learn something new. So, Seeker is really good.

If you're someone that's creative and a little older or wanting to start their own endeavor into being creative there's this podcast called Creative Pep Talk. It's awesome because even though I'm a scientist I really had to come up with my own path to be a science communicator, but also had to teach myself to bring back the creative aspect into my science work, and how do I make that into a business? So, Creative Pep Talk is also a cool podcast that has helped me be less reserved and less shy about trying to be more creative and embrace that aspect of me more and how I incorporate into the work that I'm doing with science.

Then to learn more about science stories, there's a podcast called Her STEM Story highlighting the different diverse women in STEM, and their journeys into STEM and that's also a really inspiring podcast that I listen to.

Nice. If you could go back and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would you tell her?

Ooh, people are going to tell you you're not going to be able to do something. It's going to hurt for a little bit, but just know to not give up, and that I have it in myself to continue to push forward and be a trailblazer and whatever I want to be that will make me happy.

Good advice. So, where can people find you and connect with you and find out more about Ph.uture D.octors?

I'm active on mostly Instagram. It will be @Phuturedoctors, and then I have a Ph.uture D.octors website.

I took a hiatus from making videos but with my Ph.D. dissertation, I'm trying to learn ways to actually make my science communication videos more relatable. So, that's part of my research project. So hopefully once I'm done with that, I can start releasing more YouTube videos soon. But if you visit my website phuturedoctors.com, I have scientists that I feature and the small videos that I've made and yeah, you can connect to me both through my website or through Instagram.

Awesome. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mallory.