Learn how to be good at networking in this interview with Kasra Khalili. He is the CEO & Co-founder of Mintor, an exclusive networking app for entrepreneurs to connect and meet, as well as the author of Askholes: How to Give First and Network Later. In this conversation, Kasra shares business networking tips for entrepreneurs and shares advice on how to build mutually valuable connections.

Kasra is also the Chapter Director of Startup Grind in Baton Rouge, Louisiana where he holds monthly fireside chats with successful founders to share their stories of triumph, failure, and struggle with his community. His passion lies in building trust and connection among entrepreneurs. From showcasing the success of local founders to volunteering as a mentor to help young entrepreneurs, you can count on him to be a voice for others.

MALLORY WHITFIELD:

Hi Kasra, thanks for joining us to talk about networking, how to be a better networker today.

KASRA KHALILI:

Hey, Mallory. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thank you.

So, you are a skilled networker in so many ways. Can you talk a little bit about how you got good at networking, you're kind of own networking journey?

Sure, well, I guess, I don't know if I would call myself a great networker. I hate networking. That's something that sometimes it's unknown about me, I love people. I love connecting with people. I hate networking as it is. Just the idea that it's a very self-serving kind of you know, you get this I get that mentality. At least that's what I experienced going in.

So, for me, my networking journey has been finding ways to not network, finding ways to break down I think, some of the expectations that you see whether it be an event online, and try to do it my own way, and on that journey, I found a startup to help solve it. I started writing a book and obviously me and you had that experience at a Fireside Chat. So, we're hoping to do things differently and I don't know if I'd call myself a networker, but I guess that comes with the territory.

Yeah, also I think you and I both really care about the relationship-building side of networking but sometimes networking gets this bad rap. It's very transactional, it feels like for a lot of people where if you go to in-person events back when that was more of a thing, people would just like, shove their business card in your face, and you don't even know them.

Do you have any kind of basic tips for somebody getting started, how to be a more non-sleazy networker, especially now that we've switched from in-person events, and it's kind of all having to happen online too right now?

Yeah. So, I can show you, let me share a little bit of my journey to it and maybe that'll help explain some of the tips that I came to. So, when I left college, I felt I was very personable, I felt that I could build connections fairly easily. The second I stepped out of college, I realized how un-networked I was, and part of that has to do with my family. We're immigrants from Iran. We did not have a foundation of people here that we can go to for different things. Hell, my first job came through the connection of my girlfriend at the time uncle's friend, just to show you how powerful something like that is and who the hell is he to help me. But it's powerful, knowing people.

So, I went on this journey to start finding people in business and the LinkedIn method is successful in ways but also just flat out annoying when people reach out to you with, hey, let's connect and my response these days is kind of a blanketed response. If I ever get, let's connect, I go, what do you mean? Because it's hard to open up a conversation that way. But to your point, so that kind of led me to launch the startup Mintor, that is a networking app for entrepreneurs. Doing the Startup Grind events that you were part of earlier in 2020. For me, going out and networking, you have to know who you're trying to meet. It starts there. It's very easy to find people in your industry, okay, in tech, maybe people that are interested in machine learning, interested in content creation.

So, I think those high-level linear kind of matches that people go after. I say it's wrong, simply because I'm not interested in talking to everyone that is interested in tech and there's nothing wrong with saying that. I think that's where some of the divide is, is that we think that everyone should meet everyone. And yes, everyone has something of value to share, but where there are so many people, you have to get a little focused, and you have to put in some time to figure out who that other person is. So, okay, let's say you're going to an event and I'll start with in-person because that's where we were.

If you're going to a place, an event in person, what I do is I email the organizers and ask for a list of people attending and if they say it's private, hey, sure, it's private, but more times than not it's a public event and I as an attendee want to know if there's value for me there. So, I look at that list and then I figure out who I would want to meet on that list and look keep it small keep to keep it to two or three, and then I will send out a LinkedIn message to that person saying hey, I connected with the event organizer and noticed you're going to event this weekend. I would love to grab five minutes over a beer or coffee while we're there to chat and every single time they will say yes because no one else doing that. No one else is taking the time to learn that person and who that person is ahead of time.

So, it's a little different in virtual. I mean, I don't think we figured it out yet on how to network virtually. We can put on panels we can put on fireside chats. But for one to one for people to connect with one another, I don't know. I'll mention this, we were actually working on something called Mintor Lounges, which we'll announce soon here sometime in August, where we hope to try to solve a piece of that.

Yeah, I love that idea of getting really clear ahead of time about who you're trying to connect with, I think that's really important for so many things. And I know that you were doing a lot of kind of intentional networking with Mintor and trying to get your app your company connected with people. Can you talk through that, some of your own experiences, or stories with networking for the purposes of growing your company?

Sure. So, I'll give you an example of, let's say, LinkedIn is how a lot of people go out and connect and, and I still use it even though you know, my messages are a pile of trash, there are gems in that trash. Again, it's sad, you know, it's just the truth in speaking where you have a B2B selling platform that has every person of every business and every background, able to sign up. That's what you get. It's inevitable. So, for me, let's say, especially investors, investors, and advisors.

Now when I reach out to people, I give them a clear, one to two sentence overview of who I am, what I do, and the third sentence is exactly what I'm looking for. And usually, if there's a follow up that says, no, thank you, I have a follow-up message that says, hey, no problem. I appreciate you telling me. Could you recommend me to someone else that you may know? And maybe they respond, maybe they don't, that's okay. Secondly, those that do I have very clear asks, like having a big ask and a small ask for them but this all starts beforehand, doing that beforehand before you get any into any kind of conversation.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because on the flip side, maybe you could share examples of how not to network because I've definitely had plenty of experiences, even on LinkedIn, where it's almost like the bait and switch. People reach out and they act like they're just trying to get to know you on a kind of a personal level and then I've set up a Zoom call, and then all of a sudden they're selling me and I would have just saved both of our time and told them I'm not interested in what you're selling if they just been a little bit more upfront.

Absolutely. So, interestingly enough, I found this through someone that I connected with recently. On their Calendly link, there's a question that says, are you trying to sell me something? If so, what? And that way, he has the opportunity to turn it down, and then if you do that, obviously, you're pretty awful. If you still sell something to someone and say you're not going to. Look, I don't think you can speak for the other side. You're going to get sold stuff. Okay.

What they'll be interested in is if there's something beneficial from you to them. So, I'll take for example, in Mintor, we try to build mutually beneficial connections. Our recommendations are not based on simply what that person can do for you. It is also if their need fits your experience, and then driving that connection to have a mutual benefit. So, let's say it's someone that you're trying to reach out to at LinkedIn, an event, virtual conference, whatever it is do your best. Most people have a very, I'd say moderately visible social and digital footprint. You can see what they're interested in what they do and find topics that you can speak to that would drive value to that person.

Now there's a caveat there. I wouldn't recommend simply sharing value if you don't have... I know that sounds maybe a little discouraging, but don't make it up. If you don't have something, don't speak on a topic that you don't know about. If anything, I would in turn ask them to learn about what they know if you don't know about it. So, if there's something you know, share if you don't ask to learn. Be a learn-it-all, just don't be an ask-hole.

Yeah, good segue. Okay. That's the name of your book about networking, right?

Yes, it is. So, I wrote a book called Askholes: How to Give First and Network Later. It started with my story. When I built my connection with an entrepreneur and family member in California. He gave everything to me. He met with me weekly. He shared resources, made introductions, he was my eye-opening moment into how networking should be. I saw it in action through him, and through others that I met. Well, on that journey, as much as I learned from him, I began to fail him personally. I turned into an askhole.

I started reaching out to him to ask for things, without doing the research upfront of my end taking up his time where he would direct me and pull me in different directions and I wouldn't even follow through with what he said, and then follow up again and ask something else and again, and again. I fell in that cycle for a minute, and I didn't realize it. I mean, there was probably six, seven months where I and it's hard, it's hard to express. We had a moment where we had a talk, and we talked about it.

But it's the little things like you cannot become someone that only takes, and I turned to that person where I was only taking and that's where the inspiration of the book "Askholes" came about is, I became that person that I hate because I hate networking. I started taking and never giving back to the one person that turned me on to this idea of a better way to connect on to the idea of value and giving first relationship building. So, in turn, inspired the book and inspired me reaching out and doing interviews, and learning about the stories of people, how they build connections in ways that you wouldn't see today. It was not a gunshot approach or a numbers game. It was very targeted. It was putting themselves in the right place at the right time, and do that research ahead of time to meet the right people.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that everything, the way that you approach networking feels so much about reciprocity, but also like mindfulness and intentionality, right around kind of knowing who you're trying to connect with, what information you're looking for, but also what you have to give or offer somebody else in return.

Yeah.

But I would imagine that stuff tends to evolve because we evolve as people...

Absolutely.

...and our wants and desires and everything evolve. So, do you have anything that you do personally, or that you would recommend to somebody as far as kind of checking in to sort of regroup with yourself as your business needs, or your career needs or whatever evolve?

So, interestingly enough so I have a little a web page, on the bottom of my email, I have an about me, and you click that, after the basic, here's who I am, here's my purpose, social links, things like that. I have two sections and those two sections are what I need help in. So how that person can help me and what I can help you with. and both of them are three bullet points, and I look at them weekly, because people can view them, you know, publicly on my page. That's where I would say I take a look to constantly stay up to date on what it is I'm looking for, but also on what I can provide.

So, a few weeks ago, it was simply discussions around startups and entrepreneurship. Now, it's potentially inviting people into my beta community, into my sorry, private book club that I'm building, the Startup Grind events. I don't know if I have a process of doing it but because I have this doc, that I keep up my three intentions or my three top needs, and my three top experiences are things I can give. It allows me to evolve it there, I'd say.

Yeah. Well, and it seems like you're you use technology a lot for networking, even prior to this moment. You have this on your website, where it's public, where anybody could find it. Obviously, you have the app, your Mintor. I know that you hosted the Startup Grind events. So, are there any tips or things that you've learned about leveraging technology specifically, especially now that that's kind of the main thing that we have to use?

Sure. Sure. So, I think most people if they are listening to this, you've probably gone through some kind of message or interaction with someone when you're trying to meet them or they're trying to meet you and what happens. You do a little back and forth, you ask what times are available, what aren't. You're trying to go through this pretty frustrating step by step to finally book a meeting, I'd say first and foremost, make a Calendly (and this is just a personal recommendation)... Make a Calendly or whatever booking tool you'd like to use, and have set times every week where you're willing to meet new people. So, that way, anytime that someone wants to meet you, you can say, hey, you can look here. If it's booked for the next month, it's booked for the next month but that is the best place where you can meet me, and I will openly meet with you, no prerequisites. Then obviously, if someone wants to push in and wants to really engage with you, you can vet them, and you can see if you need to meet. But I've seen that from the other side. So, as the person requesting it is so frustrating going back and forth with whether it's VCs, or executives or people who I don't know how they have the time to go back and forth with me on these messages to ultimately find the time and then rebook it a few times just to say hello.

So, I'd say set up a schedule, understand that if you're someone looking to go meet people, you need to open your calendar up too. It has to be give and take and it has to start with you too. If you're going to be the person asking to take people's time be willing to give yours as well and I would only say that not just from a how does it look standpoint, but how it makes you feel. Because, you know, you're on a call with someone, and you're taking it is very apparent, I think to you inside that you know what you're doing and you know when you get off the call, you're not giving back in any way. So, know and have a consistent way to give back so that it makes the asks of other people much easier. Does that make sense? I think if it starts with you internally, your approach to others will change.

Yeah. I think that's so important, how you make people feel in any of these situations. It's so true. One of my all-time favorite quotes is the Maya Angelou quote about "...people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And a couple of rules of thumb. I mean, I guess some things I've learned is look, no introductory call needs to be more than 20 minutes. Why? Because you have no idea, as much research as you've done, as much value as you provided upfront, you have no idea if this person is the right person for you to build a relationship with. And if you do, awesome, please message me, I would love to know your secrets and you can join the Mintor team. If you do great, I would love to talk to you. But you just don't until you meet them until you know them as a person. So, I'd say 20 minutes is the rule of thumb on how you start. Start with a phone call or give them an option, phone call, or web conference. It's the little things if you do upfront and you give people options where they don't feel that they're being dragged into your process. By getting to choose their own steps into meeting you they're going to feel good about that. But at the end of the day, they're still doing what you want to do and you both win.

Yeah, you mentioned Mintor and I know we've kind of talked around it a little talk specifically about what it actually offers if people wanted to learn more. What is it?

Yeah. So, the idea of Mintor came from that early frustration. Before I met Amir in California, before I had my go-to person, I was all over LinkedIn getting no responses or being sold stuff. I was at event after event here in Baton Rouge and other areas where I had stacks of business cards that I would respond to. I would go to the Small Business Development Center. I'd go to my local incubator, I'd go to place and place and place and met well over 100 people in under a year and I mean, meet with, phone call or in-person, email to back and forth. At the end of it two people, two people are the number of people I stayed connected with.

So, when all said and done I just thought to myself, okay, this feels like dating, but it feels like the worst kind of dating. It's much more stressful and there is literally no target on how I can get to the right person. I've started researching my fair share of networking tips and tricks and all that stuff, but at the end it what was missing for me was intention and clarity on both sides. Okay. So, fast forward and that's where Mintor came about. We built an exclusive networking app for entrepreneurs, where they can connect and meet with other entrepreneurs in the app through recommendations.

So, our recommendations are generated based on anything but what you find on LinkedIn or your resume. We don't care about your industry, we don't care about your title, we just don't care because most of the people don't either, okay and if they do, that means they're headhunting and they're targeting you okay. We're trying to take that out. So, for us, we generate the rest of those recommendations, through experiences, needs, and personality, the three things that we believe actually create mutually beneficial connections.

So, you know who to meet, why to meet them, what value you can give to them, and also the underlying personalities, that will be very important when communicating with that person. So, you sign up, we give you a list of recommendations, you choose who to connect with, their introductory calendar opens up, you book a meeting, and then after that meeting, which every meeting is 15 minutes to start. After that meeting, we try to make it very clear. The review of that meeting, says do you need to meet again, yes, or no, it's double opt-in. So, if the other person says no, okay, bye. If they say yes, great, the calendar remains open and this is the part that I get frustrated with a lot.

You ever been on a call, and they say, hey, let's stay connected. What the hell does that mean? And I ask does that mean you're going to follow me on Instagram? Does that mean you're going to like my next post? What does that mean? It's okay to ask. The nuance of it, we're trying to take some of that out for entrepreneurs. Now, we made it exclusive for a reason. We don't want it to become what LinkedIn is today, which I believe started with very, very valuable intentions, but has become selling and hiring and they're doing extremely well at that.

For us, we are going to vet entrepreneurs on the way in, and to build that trust to say, when you join Mintor, you're getting on with people that will be entrepreneurs, that will fit this set of characteristics and the ethos will remain a very engaging and startup-friendly community. So, every person that gets in also gets five invites because the only way we scale is by allowing the network to invite their trusted network as well and that's where we are. So, we're app-based, we're in private beta and we continue to grow now.

Oh, so it's like a very custom matchmaking service, (but not dating) for entrepreneurs.

Right. In some ways, it's like a match.com in LinkedIn but there's no news feed. There are no followers, and our goal is measured by the number of meetings held, not the number of connections you have. We couldn't care less. What we care about is, are you meeting the people you connect with? I think that's where we are really trying to set ourselves apart is we'll nudge you. So, you connect with someone, everything from there on out will say, hey, you should meet this person. Meet them. Why aren't you meeting them? Okay, do you still need to be connected with this person? Because if not, take them off.

This is not the place where you build up a robust network of followers so they can like your stuff or that you can go and take from at any moment you'd like. No, that will not be what we do. It's connect, meet, do you need to stay connected to meet? No. Okay, move on, and that way you can stay focused because really us as people, there's only a certain number of people that we can manage in our inner circle, in our first, second... I don't know most of the people I'm connected to on LinkedIn, on Facebook, you just don't. So, we're trying to set ourselves apart in that way.

Yeah, it's awesome. So, it's really about developing quality instead of quantity.

Yeah.

And so, speaking of quality, and kind of starting to wrap up, what is your one resource, it could be a book, a movie, a person, one resource that you feel has really changed your life that you would recommend somebody else check out?

So, for me, I have to go back to my first mentor Amir and he gave me the first I think nonfiction business book I read was The Magic of Thinking Big, and it just opened my eyes to the possibility of entrepreneurship of people and then history that has kind of broken the standard of business and ideas and thought big. So, for me, that book I'd say was huge.

Awesome. I haven't ever read that one. I'll have to check it out.

Absolutely.

And then if you could go back and give your 20-year-old self one piece of advice about anything, it could be networking, could be just life advice what would you tell your younger self?

Oh, I'd probably tell him there's time. There's more time than you think. I've always been overly ambitious, and I am extremely, extremely hard working to the point that is probably unhealthy here and there. I remember the first six months I quit my job to run Mintor full-time. There was it wasn't a week that went by where I didn't do two to three all-nighters and I didn't realize at the time, but I was I felt that there was this finish line that I had to get to. It was constant. I felt if I didn't get to the finish line, something would happen. I would be a failure. I wouldn't do it right, whatever it is, and that comes from my own background where, my senior year of high school, I became homeschooled to play tennis, because I crunched the numbers and I was like tennis is a sport that you have to start out young and those are typically the top players.

I didn't start playing till 14 and then right about 16 when I realized I wasn't winning, I got sick of it and I said, no, no, no. So, I did the math and I said if I practice six hours a day, five days a week, in eight months, I'll have played more hours than those that started at 10 years old. So, I did it. I got homeschooled. I did it. It was a great experience. I won tournaments, I got a scholarship, but I burned out, man that I burn out, and that happens because you put so much into it. I thought I learned from that, but I didn't because when the startup came, and then that fire turned back on, I mean, it was a blur. Day and night, day, and night thinking that I have to do 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day just to reach some goal.

Now, my goal and my idea of success are so much different. My idea of success is having a great relationship with my fiancé. It's having a relationship with my friends and my closest network. It's understanding that things don't need to happen on my timeline, but I can do everything in my power to try and it's okay if it doesn't. But if I have those things around me, I'll be okay and yeah, I'd tell my younger self hey, there's time. I'm 27 and I have very ambitious goals, which is, I've launched a startup. My goal is to launch it and exit it, run a networking event. I own and operate a restaurant; I'm writing this book. My goal is to bring a VC firm to Baton Rouge within the next three years, but do I need to do it in that timeline? No, I don’t, and I've got to keep reminding myself of that.

Yeah, I think that's really good advice. I have that tendency to, and I've had to learn how to slow down and give myself some space and some time. Can you remind everybody where they can connect with you online, where they can find Mintor, how to get your book when it comes out?

Sure. So, if you follow me on Twitter @KasraKhalili, that'd be the best spot. You see all my information. There are links to Mintor, my book, everything else. Happy to connect on LinkedIn. If you send me a message, tell me how you heard of me. Don't you dare say, hey, I thought it would benefit if we connected. My response will be what do you mean? It will be what do you mean? So, yeah, Twitter would be the best place. I'd be happy to connect with you.

Cool. Thank you. Thank you so much Kasra.

Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Mallory. Thank you for having me.